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Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game (Read 35407 times)
Wolf
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #60 - 10/01/12 at 3:07pm
 
Yeah... rolling under 8 on a d6 isn't that difficult to do.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #61 - 10/02/12 at 8:32pm
 
wouldn't be an 8, but the point remains the same.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #62 - 11/07/12 at 12:29am
 
A hero miniature with 9 spell cards or more (like the wizard) can use this revised spellcasting method.

All his available spell cards are on the table before the player, face up.

The hero can move and perform one action:
- Attack
- Search (treasures, secret doors, traps)
- Cast 1 spell (casting the spell flips the card upside down)

OR skip his turn (no movement or other actions):
- Remember 1 cast spell (flip the card face up, ready for reuse again)
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #63 - 11/07/12 at 2:48am
 
Any spell or the last one cast?
Any way you play it it 's a useful idea.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #64 - 11/08/12 at 1:28am
 
Any spell.

e.g. All 9 cards could be "tapped" (rotated 45 degrees). And then the wizard spends 7 turns to untap 7 of them them. He can then reuse any of those 7...

I'm not going to use this rule myself, but I think it fits perfectly into the original game without adding new items like charts, stickers, ...
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #65 - 11/08/12 at 8:39am
 
@ Toco-

Nice and simple.  I like the freedom from other player aides--it passes the Wolf test.

I think this idea fits the every-man-for-himself EU style of play better than the don't-split-up US style.  Other Heroes can individually achieve more in the EU system, thus applying a smallish time-cost against recharging/remembering a spell. As the other Heroes slay monsters and empty rooms and corridors of treasure more quickly, the Wizard loses out a bit.  

Because there is no penalty for taking extra turns to remember spells, I think a group of stick-together US Heroes would simply all wait for the Wizard to recharge before continuing.  Some EU groups would no doubt do the same. This would have the negative impact of slowing the game down and essentially allow unlimited spell use.  I think this would overpower the Wizard, not to mention the other Heroes who could constantly be healed to maximum Body Points.

Combined with a Morcar/Zargon threat system of some sort similar to what you use in Allied Heroquest, this idea better balances as a dynamic spell system.  If taking extra time benefits the evil wizard player in some way, then deciding to remember a spell or not has tactical value.

Without such a counterbalance, I'd suggest a modification of this simple recasting method--limit remembering a spell to one instance.  Rather than flipping a card upright back to its original position when remembering a spell, instead place it turned to the right to mark it as cast once.  After casting the turned card for the second time, discard the spell.  The Wizard's spell power is doubled and unlimited spell-abuse is avoided.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #66 - 11/09/12 at 6:09am
 
Your analysis is very good. Well done. I agree completely and see the "overpowered" rule I designed. That's what happens when no playtesting is done Smiley Thanks.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #67 - 11/14/12 at 10:45pm
 
You had the right spirit, and it did pass what will heretofore be known as "the Wolf test."

But Daedalus brought up the same point I was going to make regarding cooperative players that would rather wait for a full recharge of spells before every room unless otherwise presented with some sort of consequence for dilly-dallying.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #68 - 11/15/12 at 6:23am
 
Ok, so each time they rest in a room or corridor to recover one spell, make them assaulted by a wandering monster, which attacks a hero at random. If wizard is attacked, spell is not recovered.

If they want to retrieve a second spell in the same room, make it 2 wandering monsters, and so on.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #69 - 11/15/12 at 8:25am
 
Danger cards or Encounter cards or Fate cards or Threat markers...
There are many games with many ideas to accomodate for the Wolf-tested rule.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #70 - 11/20/12 at 12:31pm
 
Wolf wrote on 10/01/12 at 3:07pm:
Yeah... rolling under 8 on a d6 isn't that difficult to do.



I think I meant to say roll under MP on 2D6 before, sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #71 - 11/25/12 at 5:38am
 
This could work well with a certain time-reassure/keep the EWP interested mechanism I've been tinkering with for some time...
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #72 - 01/30/13 at 11:10am
 
ive always been keen on burning a mind point to retain a spell after casting.  keep in mind ive never tested this as my play time over the past 20 years has been limited.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #73 - 02/08/13 at 7:31am
 
I think that the wizard needs a permanent skill (like dwarf's disarm trap). My idea is an "absorb power'' skill and every use of this skill is an action.
So, the wizard and the visible monster (no bosses of course) roll a mind test. If he scores more sculls, he gets the monster's card and he can use one of the monster's stats in a future round (Attack, Defence or Movement). When the wizard uses a stat, then the card returns to the deck. He can hold as many cards as his current mind points.
Against undead: because of the magic that summons them, the skill is harder to success. The wizard (again with his mind dice) has to score more black shields than the monster's full body points. That's it.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #74 - 02/08/13 at 10:48am
 
Another idea:
I made a new Wizard's Staff for him to buy.
2 AD, including diagonal (two-handed, of course).
Plus it can shoot fireballs in a ranged attack (only 1 AD, though, cause else it's too powerful.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #75 - 10/11/13 at 8:06am
 
After reading this whole thread, I wonder if this suggestion could work better. And perhaps pass the Wolf test.

Every time the Wizard or Elf casts a spell, he has the option of trying to keep it. If he decides to try to keep the spell, he rolls 1d6. If the result is equal to or less than the number of cards of that spell type remaining in his hand, he keeps the card. If the result is greater, the caster loses the card and a wandering monster appears and immediately attacks. The Hero can defend as normal. The number of wandering monsters that appear are equal to the number of discarded spells from that spell type.

So for example, say the Elf is down to his last spell and he tries to keep it. He'd need to roll 1 on 1d6 to keep it. But he rolls, say, a 4. Not only is the spell lost, but 2 wandering monsters appear and attack.

If the wandering monster for that quest is "2 goblins," then 4 goblins suddenly appear.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #76 - 09/17/14 at 3:23pm
 
Sotiris wrote on 02/08/13 at 7:31am:
I think that the wizard needs a permanent skill (like dwarf's disarm trap). My idea is an "absorb power'' skill and every use of this skill is an action.
So, the wizard and the visible monster (no bosses of course) roll a mind test. If he scores more sculls, he gets the monster's card and he can use one of the monster's stats in a future round (Attack, Defence or Movement). When the wizard uses a stat, then the card returns to the deck. He can hold as many cards as his current mind points.
Against undead: because of the magic that summons them, the skill is harder to success. The wizard (again with his mind dice) has to score more black shields than the monster's full body points. That's it.

I like this very much. Will try it in a Quest I'm making.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #77 - 10/03/14 at 8:42am
 
Wasaia wrote on 09/17/14 at 3:23pm:
Sotiris wrote on 02/08/13 at 7:31am:
I think that the wizard needs a permanent skill (like dwarf's disarm trap). My idea is an "absorb power'' skill and every use of this skill is an action.
So, the wizard and the visible monster (no bosses of course) roll a mind test. If he scores more sculls, he gets the monster's card and he can use one of the monster's stats in a future round (Attack, Defence or Movement). When the wizard uses a stat, then the card returns to the deck. He can hold as many cards as his current mind points.
Against undead: because of the magic that summons them, the skill is harder to success. The wizard (again with his mind dice) has to score more black shields than the monster's full body points. That's it.

I like this very much. Will try it in a Quest I'm making.


Nice! Did you try him?
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #78 - 11/07/14 at 5:20am
 
One way to make the Wizard suck less is to use mind points for something, since he has plenty of those.
Details here: http://www.fclarke.com/2014/11/heroquest-2-mind-points.html

Also new character cards, spells and standups.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #79 - 08/16/15 at 7:14am
 
Even in the world of the practicable occult there exists a preconception that a Wizard (Sorcerer/Magician) is somehow weak in physical prowess or ability to engage in hand-to-hand combat perhaps due to the also prevailing concept that in order to learn magic s/he had to spend years poring over books and scrolls and devoted no time to developing a physique that would match the necessary demands magic would likely take toll of on the body; or take heed of the obvious fact that by dressing in the garb of a magician one immediately draws a certain 'attention'; and would this observation not be foremost in the wizards thoughts re: personal defense to protect the brains in their heads?

The stereotypical concept of a wizard as a weak, pasty fellow is the problem here; beef him up, give him the ability to defend himself and take away some of his 9 spells which is overkill. Give him an extra body point, allow him to wear magical armor, reorient the world in which HQ physics take place to equalize the wizard - after all, its your game, its your world, you define the experience. Examining this age-old myth of wizards as weak allows us to consider why of necessity they must be weak if not merely because that's the ways it always been done...

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