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Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game (Read 35405 times)
ZiggyZC
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #40 - 01/07/11 at 9:47am
 
It would be interesting to see what players actually did under the Wolf-system. But certainly its a system that heavily encourages you to use your most powerful spells first (whether or not that happens to be at the beginning or the end of a quest).

You might even wind up casting less spells than the original system, not more! Imagine saving your 'swift wind' and 'tempest' spells for the whole quest just so that you have a 50% chance of getting your 'genie' back once you decide to finally cast him. Just brainstorming...
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #41 - 01/07/11 at 9:59am
 
I agree it's definitely not the most optimal system.  Different players would run the gamut on how they use them.

On one end, you can use your big guns a lot at the beginning and risk having jack towards the end, where the big guns are usually needed.  On the other end, you have the wizard saving his good stuff for the end, meanwhile casting repeatable stuff like Rock Skin to help his buddies get to the end unscathed, and then using his big guns, which he won't be able to use a lot, but at least they'll be available for the big baddie.

It's definitely a pretty dynamic system, but I don't think I'd use it.  Feels kinda haphazard.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #42 - 01/07/11 at 12:22pm
 
Statistically speaking, if you blasted away with the Genie spell over and over because you really hate doors, you would lose it on the send use.  When you're at max spells, you would have 3 in each spell category.  You'd have to roll a 3 or less on a d6.  That's only a 50% chance.  So if you want to blast every goblin you see with a genie, go right ahead, but remember if you didn't lose it on the first goblin, statistically you would lose it on the second.

Remember that my system works per spell group.

The chance of losing spells would be pretty high, so it would probably be better off using them like you normally would, but there'd be a nice chance that you'd get to keep them.  I didn't realize that the system would lead to deeper strategic decisions to be made on the part of the wizard, such as the "blast em til they run out" approach, or the "don't cast spells I don't need until the final boss so I can try to hammer the boss with genies" approach, but I think that's actually pretty cool.

It would definitely make the wizard more interesting and wouldn't affect the flow of the game all that much by bogging it down with extra rules, math, keeping track of numbers and charts, etc.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #43 - 01/07/11 at 9:00pm
 
The more I think about this system the more I like it, I was stupidly not considering the fact that you have one guaranteed use of each spell.  so I definitely see that you wouldn't really want to blast out genie at first till it's gone, and wasn't considering how likely it would be gone.

I'll definitely playtest this rules change, and I may try it with number of cards minus 1 keeps it, so the last card is automatically lost.

Thanks for the suggestion Wolf.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #44 - 01/08/11 at 6:26am
 
Simple and elegant suggestion. As i read through this thread, the idea seems a little meh compared to other suggestions.

But when you think of your typical game as the wizard, 50% of the time your wizard is going to act normal as realised by Stephen Baker. However now he has the potential for awesomeness; like double genie'ing the gargoyle or healing all the heroes. But the potential is so slight I cant see anyone going overboard and risking wasting their best spells.


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Legolasbaker has stated: the original European series of Hero Quest, has reached the apex of playability for a board game."
 
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #45 - 01/08/11 at 10:55am
 
Hahaha!  Nice one!
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #46 - 01/18/11 at 11:39am
 
Idea for Wolf's system: Spending an MP allows a re-roll. The wizard exerts themselves to keep the spell they'd otherwise loose. Of course, they could still fail the re-roll...


Another system idea:

When you cast a marked spell you EITHER pay 1MP OR discard the spell.

Like with Biff's idea you could mark spells that cost more MP to cast.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #47 - 01/24/11 at 6:20am
 
maybe let the wizard select one more deck of the new wizards of morcar decks. This is what we did because otherwise they wouldnt be used.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #48 - 03/23/11 at 12:50pm
 


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   Spells previously cast can be re-established as an action.  Roll a number of attack dice from 1 up to a character's current Mind Point total.  A skull is a success.  A spell costs 1 or more successes to re-establish, depending on its effective  strength (ex. Fire of Wrath = 1 success, Genie = 3 successes).  Successes don't accumulate, and dice may not be added after the initial roll.  Re-tries are allowed as a new action.  For every black shield rolled, lose 1 Mind Point.  Too powerful?  Every white shield loses a Mind Point.
   Ideally, cards would need an icon sticker showing the successes required, as per Biff's idea.  Re-establishing a cast spell during combat denies the caster an attack for the turn.  Outside of combat, other actions would be delayed (not much of a penalty under the Baker rules).  
   There's some strategy in deciding the number of dice to roll (in combat, at least).  Roll too few, and the spell isn't recovered, wasting an action.  Rolling too many increases the chance of black shields that weaken and eventually put a caster in a coma, out for the adventure (unless a restoration/vitality potion is drank).  Financial access to more restoration/vitality potions makes a caster more powerful by extension.


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« Last Edit: 04/02/11 at 2:39pm by Daedalus »  
 
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #49 - 04/02/11 at 4:48pm
 


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Suggested number of successes needed for spell reaquisition method mentioned immediately above:


Hero spells:

              Fire of Wrath ......... 1      Pass Through Rock .... 1      
              Ball of Flame .......... 2      Rock Skin ................... 1
              Courage ............. 3/1*    Heal Body .................. 3

              Veil of Mist ............. 1      Swift Wind ................. 1
              Sleep ..................... 2      Tempest .................... 1
              Water of Healing ... 3       Genie ........................ 3

* Use 3 if useful against multiple monsters, use 1 if good for 1 attack only


Chaos spells:

        Fear ....................... 1        Tempest ........... 1         Ball of Flame ..... 2
        Sleep ..................... 2         Rust ................. 2         Escape ............. 3
        Cloud of Chaos ...... 4        Command ......... 4         Summon Orcs ... 4
        Summon Undead ... 4         Lightning Bolt ... 5        Firestorm .......... 5


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« Last Edit: 05/13/11 at 11:48pm by Daedalus »  
 
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #50 - 04/06/11 at 9:02pm
 
No charts!  No stickers!  Keep it simple or people won't like it or use it!

(My two cents, anyway)
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #51 - 04/06/11 at 9:08pm
 
Agreed, Wolf gave the best rules for it in my opinion, I'd play test it but my wife is playing a dwarf.

Because she likes Dwarves.

No pretty prancy elves for her.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #52 - 04/06/11 at 10:25pm
 
Quote:
...but my wife is playing a dwarf.
Because she likes Dwarves.
No pretty prancy elves for her.


That is super.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #53 - 04/07/11 at 9:33am
 


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Wolf wrote on 04/06/11 at 9:02pm:
No charts!No stickers!Keep it simple or people won't like it or use it!

(My two cents, anyway)  

Quote:
Agreed, Wolf gave the best rules for it in my opinion, I'd play test it but my wife is playing a dwarf.


   I'm inclined to agree with you both... for most people simpler is better and truer to Heroquest.  As a matter of concensus, I'd go with Wolf's idea, too.
   I added an alternate method for those who are willing to alter their cards with icons (the chart is best used for the purpose of altering cards only, then leave it behind).  The benefit is a little extra tactical play.  The cost is screwing with your cards.  Sad
 
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #54 - 04/07/11 at 11:53pm
 
Quote:
Agreed, Wolf gave the best rules for it in my opinion, I'd play test it but my wife is playing a dwarf.

Because she likes Dwarves.

No pretty prancy elves for her.


I thought your wife liked Ogres...
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #55 - 04/08/11 at 6:17am
 
Wolf wrote on 04/07/11 at 11:53pm:
I thought your wife liked Ogres...


LOL

...
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #56 - 09/23/12 at 1:28am
 
Tried wolves roll under the number of spell cards you have left in that element to keep the spell rule.

Worked great.

That is all.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #57 - 09/23/12 at 1:54am
 
Thanks, Ogre.
Only now found this thread, and Wolf's rule is in theory by far the most simple AND effective method to beef up the wizard.

Will playtest for my simplified rules to play with my daughter.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #58 - 09/24/12 at 3:53pm
 
I have not noticed the wizard as being weaker than the other heroes, once he starts accumulating artifacts he can recall several spells, and stockpile scrolls.

But i an see how in a homemade set of quests he can be weak if the evil wizard does not make those artifacts available or create new ones.

The following I saw in another thread, or maybe another forum, or maybe earlier in this topic... I can't be bothered to remember at the moment b/c i have a beer in front of me (or i already used that spell today) Wink

After casting a spell the wizard of elf may try to keep that spell.  If you roll equal or under your current mind points you keep it.  If you fail the test you lose a mind point from the mental exhaustion and/or magic backlash.

I have not tried it but it sound solid.  You could change it to the mind point is lost if he is successful... or both.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #59 - 09/25/12 at 8:40am
 
gootchute wrote on 09/24/12 at 3:53pm:
You could change it to the mind point is lost if he is successful... or both.  


You'd have to, because else the Wizard gets to keep every single spell,
at least up to AtOH.
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