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Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game (Read 35408 times)
Ogre
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #20 - 10/26/10 at 7:12pm
 
What if the rule was roll under half mind points to keep spell

that way it's 3 for the wizard, 2 for the elf.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #21 - 10/26/10 at 8:16pm
 
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #22 - 10/26/10 at 9:05pm
 
Quote:
What if the rule was roll under half mind points to keep spell

that way it's 3 for the wizard, 2 for the elf.


If you put it that way it's pretty simple, instead of half of this and that.

However, I like the dynamic of having some Spells being easier to lose than others.  So you still have the feeling of "risking" a Spell.  Like, do you want to use the genie on the Chaos Warrior that might kill the Barbarian, or will you need it later for the imminent Gargoyle?  Or just hit him with the safer, 2 BP flame thingy Spell?
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #23 - 10/26/10 at 10:04pm
 
Malechi wrote on 10/25/10 at 7:58pm:
How do you make the Wizard suck less? ... Sew his mouth shut.

I'd just get somebody to marry him.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #24 - 10/26/10 at 10:12pm
 
Biff wrote on 10/26/10 at 9:05pm:
Quote:
What if the rule was roll under half mind points to keep spell

that way it's 3 for the wizard, 2 for the elf.


If you put it that way it's pretty simple, instead of half of this and that.

However, I like the dynamic of having some Spells being easier to lose than others.  So you still have the feeling of "risking" a Spell.  Like, do you want to use the genie on the Chaos Warrior that might kill the Barbarian, or will you need it later for the imminent Gargoyle?  Or just hit him with the safer, 2 BP flame thingy Spell?

Still think Biffs is a better solution.  You could munge them together, rather than showing a icon on the card give it a -1,0,+1 instead that modifies the roll.
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Ogre
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #25 - 10/27/10 at 6:00am
 
Yeah, I understand what you are saying Biff, and I agree, I was just trying to not have to really redo anything for the rule to work, or make any type of table.

But clearly Genie is more powerful than Fire of Wrath, so your chance to lose it should be more.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #26 - 10/27/10 at 9:16am
 
Based on Biff's idea:

Give each spell a sticker with on of the combat die results on. Powerful spells like Genie would have a black shield, weak spells like Swift Wind would have a skull.

When you cast and don't use a "don't discard" ability, you roll the combat die. If the symbol matches, you keep the spell.

The wizard, being the Wizard, can choose to spend 1MP if he fails, to re-roll the die, limit of 1MP per spell.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #27 - 10/27/10 at 9:28am
 
Are you sure you'd want to give the Genie a 1 in 6 chance of being kept?  The way I figured it, you want the Wizard to use his big bang spell once or twice only, so he saves it, and the weaker 1 and 2 BP spells to be used constantly, like every battle.
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Ogre
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #28 - 10/27/10 at 12:39pm
 
Biff wrote on 10/27/10 at 9:28am:
Are you sure you'd want to give the Genie a 1 in 6 chance of being kept?  The way I figured it, you want the Wizard to use his big bang spell once or twice only, so he saves it, and the weaker 1 and 2 BP spells to be used constantly, like every battle.



So it should be LESS than 1 in 6? you seem to be agreeing with him?
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #29 - 10/27/10 at 2:06pm
 
No, more.  The way I said it was Genie would have a white skull icon.  So if you use it, you roll a die.  Skull comes up, the card is gone.  50/50 chance of losing it.

1 BP Spell has a black shield.  Five in six chance of keeping it per use.

Slev's idea gives all Spells either a 1 in 6, 2 in 6, or 3 in 6 (50/50) of being kept... so even the weakest Spells you get a 50/50 chance of using twice.

My idea is the opposite.  50/50 of losing a powerful spell, 5 in 6 chance of keeping a weak Spell, and 4 in 6 chance of keeping a medium Spell.

Basically I'd want the Wizard throwing around those 1BP spells like it's going out of style, but still have enough risk to the big bang Spells to only use occasionally.
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Ogre
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #30 - 10/27/10 at 2:56pm
 
I see.

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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #31 - 10/29/10 at 10:13am
 
I implemented a system in my game that allowed players to level up per game played. The wizard gained more Mana points and could purchase more powerful spells.

By the time we quit playing, the analogy could be made to 2nd Edition Dungeons and Dragons: which is to say at low levels, Wizards SUCKED. But if you had the time and the patience to stick with it and level that character up, by the time they got into the higher levels, Wizards were damn near GODS.

Also, I like my Mage/Petty Elementalist rules. Basically, what they state is that a Magic user has the ability to specialize in one element. In the original game this is what the Elf is. Basically, I have opened this option up to the Wizard. If he wants to go solo fire spells, he can. The Advantage is that you cast spells at 3/4 the amount of mana required. Thus, the original Wizard gets 9 spells, and the original HQ spells in my ruleset are 1 mana point each. This would give the Specialist Wizard 12 one mana point spells. The disadvantage, of course, is two fold. #1 is that you can only cast spells of one element. The other, and this could be an advantage or Disadvantage, is my "Elemental Reflection" rules. Basically, the Fire Mage takes less damage from Fire spells, but takes extra damage from Water spells. The Wind mage takes less damage from Wind spells (like Lightening), but gets hammered by Earth spells.

The BEST thing about this ruleset is that you can have two magic users--two WIZARDS in your group with completely different spell books. Making their characters unique is something that my players loved.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #32 - 01/06/11 at 10:26pm
 
For no reason other than that I can't sleep, I will now post yet another spell recast system idea.

At the end of any turn where a spell-caster casts a spell he may roll the two red dice and if the sum of this roll plus the caster's mind points is greater than or equal to the spell's recast number the caster retains the spell card, otherwise it is discarded.

* if 2d6+MP >= recast#, then keep spell
* otherwise, discard spell

The following chart shows the percent chance of keeping a spell for a given recast number (labeled "Rc#") for the wizard (6MP) and the elf (4MP). Also there is a table of suggested recast numbers for each spell in the basic game system. (This table is not necessary to implement this system, its only here to help development and to help in choosing appropriate recast numbers for your game.)

...

For example, if a caster with 6MP casts a spell with recast number 12, there is a 72.2% chance he will keep the spell. If a 4MP player casts a spell with a recast number 17, there is no chance for him to keep the spell. If a 7MP player casts a spell with recast number 15, there is a 41.6% chance to keep the spell.

I like this system because its simple, it allows for many different recast numbers which makes spells more unique, it uses mind points which are underused, it includes the elf, and it easily and clearly scales with items that increase mind points or character leveling.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #33 - 01/07/11 at 12:39am
 
I'm gonna disagree about the simplicity.  Whenever you have to consult a chart, then things can be simpler.  We're talking HeroQuest.  Consulting of charts should be nowhere in the language of the game.

What I do like, though, is the use of mind points.  You could have a system where each Spell uses a certain number of mind points, say from 0 to 2.  Weak Spells have an MP cost of 0, so you're in no danger in using them.  But using a Spell that taxes you 1 MP, it drains you, and you've now suffered a reduction of being able to use your Spells.

Let's say the Wizard has to roll a d6 to use a Spell.  D6 needs to land equal to or below his MP to use.  He starts with what, 7 MP?  So every MP 0 spell he uses succeeds automatically.  If he uses an MP1 Spell, then his first two tries succeed automatically; first spell causes the roll to need to be 7 or less, then 6 or less.  From there on, using the more powerful Spells decreases your chances of success.

Actually, a 0-point and 1-point system might work.  Either a spell uses a mind point, or it doesn't.  Instead of the 0 - 1 - 2 suggested earlier.  Make it black and white.  Is the Spell really useful?  Make it use up a mind point.  Is it kinda weak?  Free.

So now ol' Wiz can use his weak Spells a much as he wants toward the beginning of the Quest, but as they get in a bind and more dangerous Spells are used, his effectiveness begins to fail, and it's a gamble whether he can use Genie effectively.

To open a door, of course.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #34 - 01/07/11 at 2:55am
 
How about just making it so that you roll a d6 each time you cast a spell.  If the number you rolled is equal to the number of cards of that spell type (Fire, for example) that you have in your hand or less, then you get to keep it.  This way, you start the game with a 50% chance of keeping spells of each class when you cast them, but after losing one, then you have only a 33% chance of keeping your spell, and finally only a 16% chance once you're down to one.  It's simple, gets harder to keep spells as the quest goes on, and nothing to look up or keep track of that you're not already keeping track of.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #35 - 01/07/11 at 3:04am
 
Nice and simple Wolf, I like it.
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Ogre
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #36 - 01/07/11 at 7:21am
 
The problem with wolf's is that you will blast your most powerful spells first, and keep blasting them till you lose them, so you are ending the game with weak attack spells you will probably lose.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #37 - 01/07/11 at 8:11am
 
Quote:
I'm gonna disagree about the simplicity.


Hmmm... I was actually sort of plagiarizing your idea. Put a little number (icon in your previous suggestion) in the corner of the card - end of story. So when you cast you just roll the 2d6+MP and that's the end of it, no table needed.

Quote:
The problem with wolf's is that you will blast your most powerful spells first, and keep blasting them till you lose them, so you are ending the game with weak attack spells you will probably lose.


Agreed.
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #38 - 01/07/11 at 8:39am
 
Oh I see.  Yeah, on the card would be much better.  No chart look-ups in HeroQuest!
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Re: Idea to make the wizard suck less while not changing the game
Reply #39 - 01/07/11 at 8:47am
 
Regarding Wolf's idea, you'd still want to save your big guns for the end, I think.  I mean, when you're fighting a couple Orcs, do you really wanna bust the Genie on them?  Probably not.  You'll wait for a Chaos Warrior or Gargoyle, but by the time you get to one, it'll be almost a sure loss when you use it.  So you could use your big guns all in the beginning fighting the trash, but when it comes to the boss, you're gonna suck (like the Wizard does anyway).
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